Adventures of a Pally and 4x Death Knights

[Ualaa]

March 17th, Alterac Valley.

More wins then losses today, for the first time.
9 Wins, 8 Losses, 17 Games Played; 52.94% Win Rate.

Queues are a little longer for AV, mid-week and not AV Weekend.
Not too bad, during the day they were 90 seconds.
But towards midnight, could not get into a game, despite it saying the average wait time was 1 minute.

Judsea added:
Boots and Bracers.

The Gnomettes added:
Second Trinket.

All of the toons are basically 3000 resilience.
The DK's are 2986; Juds is 3091.





I've been changing my tactics a little.
I go to Belinda and defend.

If the horde send a lot of players, they will wipe me every time.
If they do send that many, the alliance will get Galv.
Which puts the teams on even footing.
It also has my team spawn on defense, sometimes at Stonehearth but usually at Stormpike.

If I spawn at Stormpike, I backcap DB North/South and guard the bridge.
Basically play really defensive.

If I spawn at Stone Hearth, I position myself halfway between Stonehearth Graveyard and Icewing Bunker, and spend the game killing all horde that attempt to move onto offense.
In this kind of game, I recap Stonehearth to keep the horde on the defensive without a forward graveyard to spawn at.

If they did not send a large group to Belinda.
Ten or fewer players is relatively easy most of the time.
Army of the Dead x4, with the "Big Button" and "Bubble" when it is needed.
My best was 16 horde killed, without dying, as the "only" (5 of me) Belinda defender.
If I get any kind of a healer in with me, or those odd games where 10 of us defend her, Belinda lives...

And I guard between Stonehearth GY and Icewing Bunker; in this kind of a game, I will not backcap the SH GY, but will farm any horde that come out of it....
I want them split up, into manageable numbers... if it is half and half, the alliance offense should be able to hold a couple of towers, or possibly get all four if the group is good.
At the same time, half of the horde (or preferably a bit less) is ideal. They won't have a lot to take a forward graveyard, so will spawn in easy to pick off trickles at Stonehearth.

They do eventually get me, most games... once there's a whole bunch spawning at once; but if the offense is even half capable, I've given them an insurmountable headstart.... not saying the alliance are half capable all the time though.

[Ualaa]

The entire team has broken 3k resilience.
Have run a lot of AV's, and basically nothing of the others... SotA weekend is coming up, and while it isn't my favorite BG, it is large scale which is better for boxers.

Still haven't done the arena thing; might have to find a different pair of players, as no time worked out with the pair who were going to run with me.

[Tim]

Your team seems to be getting better and better Ualaa, the more and more resilience you get.

Quick question: Do you have your AV trinkets which port you back to your home base? If so, do you end up using them if your team gets split across multiple graveyards?

[Ualaa]

At the moment, Resilience scales too well.
It is easily the best stat to stack for PvP.
In 4.1, they're going to change it such that the same Resilience at 32.50% damage reduction (close to 3,000 resilience) does the same amount of reduction, but under that amount Resilience will be slightly better than it is now, and beyond that amount it will provide less benefit than it does currently.
For now, stack Resilience...
In 4.1, it will still be a strong stat, but Red/Blue gems might get a better bang for the buck with another stat.



Yes, have those trinkets... and was reported AFK getting them (have to go into the Harpy Cave) with the Druids but was not reported AFK getting them on the gnomettes.
Once you have them, they upgrade based on your honor at the NPC in Alterac; not that they'll ever be worth equipping for their stats anymore.

If a gnomette dies, but the team survives... I will rez the fallen and resume from wherever.
If it looks like the team is going to die, I try to not release until everyone is dead, so they will spawn in the same place.
If we control a graveyard that we're fighting at, I release (via macro) on the fallen, and IWT spam will bring them into the fight even if we're a little beyond the flag itself.

It sucks when the Paladin dies, as the Gnomettes cannot rez yet.
In 4.1 they're supposed to get a battle rez like ability, costing 60 runic power.
Normal battlerez will share a cooldown, across a raid or rated battleground, but if its like the druid battle rez... then you can use them on individual re-use timers in normal battlegrounds or world pvp/pve.

Usually if they die and the corpse is looted, so I cannot rez... I'll run the team in the direction of the graveyard where the missing toon is spawning.
Or if its still a mass battle, run that toon in the direction of the group.
Haven't used the trinkets to regroup much... once on the gnomettes and a few times on the druids through both honor grinds.

The ability to regroup via the hearth-home trinkets is decent, but more often they're used to backcap especially if the horde get a small number beyond our defense.

I've used the trinket to backcap DunBaldar North or South.
Even got the Stormpike Aid Station a few times, but generally if it is capped... there will be quite a few there, and they rez too quickly to take it; if it has not capped yet, it is pretty easy to take back with five toons.

[Tim]

Hey Ualaa, I've often found that AV is really hard for any class that isn't a die hard range class (shamans, hunters, etc).

Have you tried grinding out honor in something like AB/EOTS instead of AV? Do you think you would get more points, or less, assuming you got maybe 10% more wins?

[Ualaa]

The glyphed range on Death Grip, is as far as any class has range... with the exception of the Hunter, by five yards.
But a five yard range isn't that big of a deal, especially in a game with objectives.

I haven't found range to be the slightest issue actually.
I basically run to a graveyard flag and cap it; if they want to take it from me, they have to come into range to get it.
If they're hemming and hawing, deciding what to do, I'll move towards them and either Death Grip one in or have them run off and not contest my objective.
A bunker or tower is even less range required; towers are a bit of a pain to get into with follow, but once you're up they are easy... bunkers are more of a pain, because of the donut ring around the top; death gripping people down to the last set of stairs seems to work quite well, as does running right to the flag without engaging if it appears empty (a rogue cannot sap a team, and is dead if they engage.. plus you can Consecrate or Death & Decay).

Groups, whether 3's and 4's or 15's, don't have the same trepidation and generally rush in right away.
If they don't have heals, ridiculously large groups fall since I have both heals and AoE damage.
The healing of the Pally is enormous, as I can support my team as I kill with the DK's; having healing via Clique means my DPS/Cooldowns and my Healing don't interfere with each other.



I'm close to full honor gear on the team, missing the honor purchased head/shoulder enchants on the Paladin, and the same plus Bracers & Boots on the DK's (who have the crafted pieces in those slots).

Going into the other BG's isn't as painful now.
The smaller BG's are incredibly painful as an undergeared boxer; you're as much as 50% of the team, and there's no guarantee the remaining players will be geared.
Similarly, doing them while geared means half of the team can pull their weight.

The large scale BG's are still going to be the best, as being five players in one spot is a significant penalty to your side in the smaller BG's.

My most successful boxing strategy for a WSG is to kill a few of their toons (flag room) and then farm their graveyard, thereby keeping anyone that has died on their faction out of the game.
Still, if my five toons are occupying six or seven of the hordies, I'll be blamed for a loss despite my team having a 5 on 3/4 advantage for the running/intercepting of flags.

The strength of boxing, is the ability to punch through a larger group of players consistently.
And the weakness is having an inflexible set of toons that are always in the same place and cannot split up when the battleground calls for it.

The best strategy I've seen for AB is to hold Blacksmith, Stables and Farm.
Not so much that you hold them, but if you had a player or two at those nodes and moved between them (Path of Frost) smashing any offensive against any of those nodes, the opposition would not hold them.
I've seen videos of DK + 4x Rets (in WotLK), that did just that.
Running full honor Shammies, I've never had nearly that level of success in AB.



As far as honor per hour.
I would suspect the Random and BG Weekend Battleground to be the best.
And then AV.

[Ualaa]

I ran some 2's, with a PvE geared Frost Mage (348 iLV; my DK's are 348 iLV pvp geared).

Cuddles....5 wins, 4 losses, 9 games.
Snuggles.... 4 wins, 4 losses, 8 games.

Huggles, Tickles and Judsea are eagerly awaiting the return of the mage from the vile clutches of the disconnect monster.

Huggles is 5 wins, 5 losses, 10 games.
Two partners...

Tickles lost her first 4 games, but ended up 5 wins and 5 losses on the week.

Juds ended up 5 wins, 3 losses, 8 games.


This week:
5/5 Cuddles
5/5 Huggles
5/5 Judsea
5/5 Tickles
5/5 Snuggles



Looking forward to next Tuesday.
Points, or rather weekly caps will reset.

Juds will get a +550 spell power weapon (or rather +550 additional spellpower... and the Cataclysm achievement for gear quality), with Resilience on it.
The Gnomettes will be very close to their weapons...

Week three, will be Juds's shield and the Gnomettes will get the swords.
That will move Juds to 3554 Res, and the Gnomettes will hit (also assuming 5k of honor... for their last two pieces plus the helm/shoulder pvp enchant, in the next two weeks) a similar number.



Buying wins is totally worth it.
Going random players... was one win in eight to ten games.
Offering gold per win, and getting much higher quality partners, rocks.
Three weeks of this, and see how 5's goes... or evaluate whether to continue the 2's or not.

[Ualaa]

Overall, I don't think I like Strand of the Ancients.

On defense, the Howling Blast of the DK's will snare the opposing siege vehicles, which virtually guarantees I destroy both before they take down the Green/Blue gate (whichever side I'm on).

But the pace is rather fast, and I don't really have the time to go and rez a toon should they fall.
And with the releasing and rezzing in a graveyard, it is rather hard to regroup the team.

Offense is the part that I don't like so much.
You're randomly placed on one of two boats.
Virtually guaranteed to have the team split initially; sure can use Path of Frost to unite fairly early, but don't like that the team starts in two positions.



It is a fifteen man BG, so not that small nor that large.
Definitely the 40-man BG's are better for a boxed team.

The focus of the BG is a race.
Destroy the gates leading to the relic faster than the other team that does the same on their turn.
The first team has a maximum of 10 minutes to accomplish the goal; it seems to take 6-7 minutes on average.
The second team has a maximum of the time it took the first team, or they take longer and lose.
Overall games are in the 10-15 minute range.

On SotA weekend, SotA is close to 500 honor per hour.
Which is better than AV (by more than double, when AV is not the weekend or the random), but AV is a lot more fun and pops just as quickly.
Random gets a bunch of BG's I don't like, but has the bonus honor the same as the BG weekend.

Will try some more SotA's and see how it goes.
But suspect AV will again be the best place for honor this weekend.

[Tim]

Ualaa, here is an idea for SotA to deal with the splitting of your team: Put up the water walking frost feet thingy of the DKs up, then have them both jump off the sides of the boat and run towards the middle, whereas you can then assemble the team up while you stand on top of water, and then march in. I've used that strategy and it seems to work out pretty well. Still, that BG sucks, but that is a way to approach offense.

Just curious, what are your thoughts of going Blood spec for BGs? Are there any pros/cons that jump out to you? I really like blood spec, the heals and armor, and so far I chop suey through melee super fast with Heart Strike's multi-target hits.

[Ualaa]

You could run Blood spec in BG's; some people have tried that with varying degrees of success.
If your team is/was 4x Death Knights, without a healer... this would likely be the way to go.

You would have the talent support for Death Strike (1x Frost, 1x Unholy runes), which would be your primary heal.
Your Blood runes would likely be Heart Strikes, which hit up to three targets at once.
With Rune Strike as your runic power dump.

I have a Death Strike, Blood Strike, Frost Strike sequence, as a Frost Death Knight.
Frost Strike hits a lot harder than Rune Strike.
Glyph of Dark Succor guarantees Blood Strikes heal for at least 15% of your maximum health, when not in Blood Presence... so comparable healing, costing either talent points (Blood) or a Major Glyph (Frost).

The offensive sequence might be: Obliterate (1x Frost, 1x Unholy) in the place of Death Strike.
I have this as my primary single-target sequence.
Obliterate > Blood Strike > Frost Strike.



Assuming you have a healer, in BG's any non-Druid would be approximately equal to the others (with Priest/Paladin being stronger than a Shammy in arena because of the healing after death as a Priest or Bubble as a Pally).
Druids have a ramp-up time, due to HOTs... and boxed are way more fragile because we cannot pillar hump while concentrating on melee and cooldowns.

What do you get with Frost that Blood lacks?

Howling Blast has a 30 yard range, hits the primary target hard and does splash damage (50% damage) to everyone within 10 yards of the primary target.
Because of the glyph, it applies Frost Fever to everyone hit by it.
Because of talents, this is a 50% snare/casting speed reduction.
The snare and cast speed reduction applies to both the primary target and everyone hit by the splash/aoe damage.
HB is flat out, an amazing ability.

Frost Strike is the second big bonus.
This can be glyphed (absolutely have this glyph) to reduce the cost from 40 runic power to 32.
Frost Strike hits much harder than Death Coil (Unholy's runic power dump) or Rune Strike (Blood's runic power dump); aside from Obliterate, this is the hardest hitting move any DK has access to.

Hungering Cold is a Point-Blank short range AoE.
It is a very strong CC effect against melee classes and pets.
Your DK diseases will not break it, but any other damage will.
Glyphed the runic power requirement is reduced to zero, from sixty.
This, on round-robin (a second use, if they trinket the first) is a primary survival tool in mass pvp.
You basically have two HC's to ensure one lands, then wait 30 seconds for Diminishing Returns to pass, and have two more.

PvP Frost DK's use Unholy Presence, not Blood Presence.
This means faster run speed, and 1.0 second GCD's between abilities instead of 1.5 seconds.
More burst...

Last big bonus is Necrotic Strike.
NS is the level 83 spell, which acts as anti-healing; somewhere in the range of 7-9k healing reduced per application (the amount is reduced by resilience) and multiple applications from the team stack.
Sure, you will have access to this as Blood, and it will be just as effective...
However... Howling Blast (1x Frost) and Necrotic Strike (1x Unholy) go together very nicely, but Death Strike/Obliterate (1x Frost + 1x Unholy) both use your Unholy Rune.

The primary Frost rotation is:
Howling Blast > Frost Strike > Necrotic Strike > Blood Strike

A big bonus and a penalty to Frost spec is that roughly half your damage is considered magic based.
This means it bypasses any amount of armor, as if the target had no armor.
It uses your melee hit (4% hit will cap you for pvp).
It is subject to resistances; Frost Resistance Totem/Healing Stream Totem (glyphed) or Resistance Aura provide 195 frost resistance (MotW/Kings provides a lesser amount).
The 70 resist enchant to cloak, combined with three (blue) gems for spell penetration get you ((50x3)+70) 220 spell penetration.
Technically a mage with Frost Armor and the Paladin/Shaman resistance has 240 resistance, but I don't think it's worth the extra blue gem slot.



In 4.1, the current Frost perk 'Blood of the North' which causes the Blood Rune from Blood Strike and Pestilence to regenerate as a Death Rune... and can then be used in the place of Frost/Unholy runes changes...

Frost DK's will not have Blood Runes, instead they will permanently have Death Runes.

Meaning we remove our weakest spell (Blood Strike) from each rotation, ending up with:
1: HB > FS > NS (1x extra HB & NS or 2x extra HB/NS, per five seconds)
2: OBL > FS (1x extra Obliterate, per five seconds)
3: DS > FS (1x extra Death Strike, per five seconds)



TLDR: Frost gives you two offensive rotations - HB/FS/NS/BS or OBL/BS/FS, and access to Hungering Cold.





I have used the Path of Frost to regroup, at the start of SotA on offense.

I actually have two keybinds for this.
One has each of the DK's do Path of Frost.
The other has each do: /cancelaura Path of Frost.

I don't like SotA because...
If I follow the objectives on either offense or defense, ie - move with the Demolishers to support or destroy them, then my team gets picked off by random opposition.
But if I mindlessly pvp against the opposition, then I am not contributing to the win.

Best strategy seems to be:



Offense:
Escort demo's towards Blue or Green gate, and engage (stop the escort) the first group of defenders; once no defenders remain, mount and run towards the Demo's again to repeat.
Once they're through the first gate, prioritize the graveyards as holding these results in more vehicles spawning for your side.

Defense:
Rush to either dock, and destroy the nearer siege vehicle as soon as it spawns; it will be destroyed before they can enter it.
Attack the second siege vehicle on your side, until it is destroyed or until their ground/support engages you; prioritize their escort over the vehicle, keeping your team alive and not split.
Anytime the escort is dead, harass the siege vehicles again.
Once the first gate(s) fall, ignore the middle gates as they're hard to defend and move to the last gate (Yellow).



Alternative strategy... Most recommend not queuing this BG on any weekend ever.